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本帖最后由 隐秘战线 于 2022-3-26 09:32 编辑
以下为全文主要内容，其中大部分双方诸如“嗯”、“啊”、“哦”这样的，任何不影响原文含义的语气词和其他单词将会被剔除，不通顺和有语病的语句会尽量贴近原意修改
以下，“R”为冒充乌克兰总理杰尼斯·什米加尔采访的视频原作者，而“B”则为英国国防部长本·华莱士
CAUTION:
This conversation contains high value western strategic military intellgence, and considered extraordinary rare. Therefore any forms of localized storage of its content at full text are highly recommended for any possible sharing, archiving, and referencing in the near future.
R: Hello.
B: Hello.
R: How are you there?
B: I'm fine I'm in Poland.
R: Okay yes I know. So dear secretary...
B: How are you?
R: I'm good.
First of all, thank you for your support of our country in the fight against Russian aggression, so president Zelenskyy delegated me to have this conversation with you. And I am very grateful to your country (for) what you are doing because some western countries, despite promises abandoned us in a difficult moment. But the UK supported us, and the supply of weapons from you and NATO is vital for Ukraine it's very important, thank you very much.
B: It's my pleasure. I've visited you five times over the last five years, so I'm determined to keep more and more supplies coming to you.
R: Well I understand that you are probably fed up with this question but I would like to ask: how else can the UK support us in this difficult time for you?
B: I can't say where I've been but I've just been to look at more of our anti-air capacity to give you, and making sure that we are getting it into the country as quickly as possible.
R: I mean of course we're currently discussing the idea of a defensive alliance with a country with a nuclear weapon, and it would be great if the UK became such a country, so how do you feel about the idea of union between our countries, and for example it was wonderful to open official British training centers in our country?
B: Well look, I think we are very keen to support you in any negotiations. And I know my understanding is president Zelenskyy is quite keen to see the United Kingdom alongside Ukraine in these negotiations because of the experience that we didn't have, the bad experience of the Minsk Agreement, where just France and Germany were there and I think there is a desire for the UK and the US. And I think all of those subjects including a security alliance, I think is something to discuss with you on those negotiations
R: I mean you know...I mean the new union, so you know that Russia demands to leave ideas of joining NATO, what do you think?
B: I think the freedom to choose is a very important freedom for Ukraine, and if Russia's other demands of Crimea and Donbass - to abandon all those which I don't think Ukraine will but if Russia was to be successful, then you know the question is you know Russia is still a war criminal with sanctions around its neck and deserves to keep them there. So I think we will stand by Ukraine in everything we can do. When it comes to discussions about security guarantees, I think we need to support you in what is the other parts of the agreement as well. You know that what are the part of the agreement that Russia will demand and whether you think they are appropriate or whether they're acceptable. Because I don't think Russia should be able to demand anything other than going home.
R: Yeah of course I know that I'm talking about the situation. Of course, one of the main issues that we are concerned about now is the open sky over Ukraine. So the question is, is it possible to somehow make the NATO ban on non-interference and do something to close the sky for Russian aircraft? I know that many times you were questioned about this but it's really really important now and president Zelenskyy says about it yesterday in congress.
B: So look two things, I've been looking at your new anti-air missile that we're sending you, which is better than Stinger, it'll work at night. It's a very very fast missile, and it will help close the skies to Russian aircraft.
I think what I would like to understand from Ukraine is give that Russia has overwhelming amounts of artillery and missiles, and one of the few areas that Ukraine has a military ability to hit those missiles and artillery using air and by altitudes - how would you deal with not being able to fly because a no-fly zone would for both sides.
B: Mr. Prime Minister could I ask you a question if I may?
R: Yes.
B: Your constitution currently has the application or the NATO obligation in it. I understand if president Zelenskyy and I heard that he said about neutrality and or not joining NATO. Do you think the Ukrainian people would support that?
R: I really don't know now because you know the situation after what Putin has done, it's pretty hard for us to change the constitution, so wea have to see what we are...we can do maybe it would be international agreement. Anyway but it's a pretty...pretty hard situation. So we have to see and of course it should be with our allies, and also the question I would like to ask: could Birtish warships come to Black Sea and help us, I mean such regions like Odessa?
B: Right now you mean in the war?
R: Yes I mean right now.
B: So look, we are as you know we are not going to directly attack Russian ships or Russian airplanes, that's just...that that's not not not at this stage will we be doing this. And as you know that is you know that's a difficult thing for me to say. We will help you with a whole range of weapons that can deal with those including potentially in the black sea.
And if you know remember last year we took HMS Defender past Crimea and the Russians behaved illegally then. I am considering more and more weapon systems to help in it, we will go into the Black Sea I think we're due to go soon in the Black Sea. How close we go to Ukrainian waters, where the Russians currently have a blockade, I think we will be open to discussions about looking at that.
I think the whole question is Mr. Prime Minister, including the security dialogue or security guarantee, we are happy to look at all of them with you. So we're not going to rule anything out, I think what would be really good is to be able to discuss these with you. Because you know, I have to speak to my Prime Minister and to be able to discuss it with you in Mr. Zelenskyy's team. And we'd be very keen to find a way for one of our diplomats to engage with you - on a permanent basis in the next few days and weeks.
R: No I mean maybe on next stage we can fight together.
B: Oh look, on the next stage I hope we would always be keen to be with you in Ukraine. But I mean...
R: Yes...
B: If a peace deal is there we're not good if you make a deal that is right for you and Ukraine, and what you are happy to deliver, Britain will look at all options to help you: including being in Ukraine.
I have troops in Poland, I have troops in Estonia, I have troops in Lithuania - I am happy to be with you in Ukraine in...obviously subject to you know if you remember we were having...we had 100 troops in orbital training team, we've had that since 2015. But we can look at all sorts of options.
R: Yeah thanks very much it's really important and why I also would like to request provide NLAW anti-tank weapons since those delivered earlier often failed so that was the problems for our country...
B: I don't think I also (they're) failed I've got the details of ours, we've given you over 4000. We've got more coming, we're running out of our own but I speak to minister Reznikov or text him everyday. So yeah we have a problem in bureaucracy at the moment which is we had two routes into the country, and we...the Ukrainian General Staff chose to push everything through one route that has slowed down supplies into a part of your army that needs them.
R: Right yeah I would like to ask you for my human (personal) opinion: how do you think other states? What do they think about our anti-NATO status? So what do you think? What about your colleague from the US, what do (does) he really think about our status? I know that it's pretty difficult to not try to join NATO.
B: So look I don't think we have any of our colleagues...You know of course we're sad and you know Britain was one of those countries that wanted you to join NATO right? I mean there are 30 nations in NATO and that is part of the problem. It's not easy to get every single one to say yes. And we have always wanted you to join NATO, which is why our training teams were there to help you over the last 5 years...try and get to the right stage, and you were there so that is you know - a deep sense of regret.
What we don't want to do is (to) see you bullied into making decisions like recognizing Crimea as Russia. So I think we deeply feel that you should be free, away from this Russian Nazi and bully.
R: We would like to continue the nuclear program in order to protect ourselves from Russia. It's a difficult question but we think to start it.
B: Okay, but do you think...I mean I think more than being neutral Russia would really hate that.
R: For sure we know this of course, but this is one of the questions that we are interested in. If you could help us in this regard it would be really really important.
B: Okay, well look I I I...Mr. Prime Minister, on all those bigger questions I think those are questions that I need to speak to my Prime Minister.
The principle is we will support Ukraine as our friend, in choices you make whether you want to be part of NATO or you don't want to be part of NATO, whether you want to explore new weapons etc. that is all a matter for you to decide, and for the West to in a sense stand by you. And on things like the security guarantees, we would be every happy to look at that with you in whatever way we can. I understand the need for it, and we would like to be close with you in these negotiations for really two reasons. So we can provide our intelligence to you - as much as possible, to let you know what we think the Russians are thinking, and to just allow you all to be able to explore with us what you think is feasible.
R: Right, dear secretary in the proposals for a peace treaty, Russia wants us to reduce the army as well as the number of weapons. In this case can we count on the secret supplies of weapons for us, for example to store it in Poland?
B: So Mr. Prime Minister I understand what you're asking...
原作者在此处切入并加注道：Sorry, but some part of the conversation has been deleted because it is likely to affect the national security of the UK.
R: Right, yes or maybe you could filter some volunteers that are coming to our country to fight against Russians. You know many volunteers and there are some...more frequent cases when the British discredit our country in the eyes of the world. For example Jake Pridey from Cardiff recently gave an interview that we have terrible conditions, and we are deceiving everyone and he managed to convince 20 more volunteers to refuse the contracts. This information undermines the moral of Ukraine.
B: I'm not responsible for idiots that come and give interviews on media, I'm afraid I can try and stop them but you know there are also no doubt people who have come to help you, who are perfectly happy to stand and fight alongside you. So look if some idiot from Cardiff decides to give an interview, he's probably an idiot. I mean I think it's quite hard for me to...in our free press I can't control those people but we're trying to discourage people coming who what we would call our Walter Mitties (Walter Mitty), people who are thrill seekers, who haven't really been in the army probably failures rather than the army. But we'll see what we can do.
Any proposals you talk about are something that the UK would discuss on your acquisition of a nuclear or when you think you want to explore a nuclear weapon, I think I would just be very careful about all of that. You know we are a signature to the Nuclear Proliferation Act, we can't be seen to be doing that. That is an entirely different issue so I think you have to be very careful with that.
再次切入并加注：Sorry, but some part of the conversation has been deleted because it is likely to affect the national security of the UK.
B: I can say "Slava Ukraine".
R: And to say to our heroes Vovan and Lexus, it's our Ukrainian heroes they bombed airplanes from Russian sites.
B: Slava Ukraine
R: Slava Vovan and Lexus
B: 挥手但是在向左瞟了一眼后再看着手机，似乎意识到了什么......当然也有可能是车已经到达目的地
B: Slava Ukraine, thank you for talking to me.
R: Thank you, thank you very much.
B: Bye.
R: Yes bye.
隐秘战线注：我会在把原作者的另一部视频（原作者频道已遭全面封杀）与英国内政大臣普丽蒂·帕特尔的对话原文发出后着手进行翻译，敬请期待
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发表于 2022-3-25 12:56:16
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